1953 NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT SYSTEM Train Bus Transit Token **THE HOLY GRAIL**

Description: 1953 NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT SYSTEM Train Bus Transit Token **THE HOLY GRAIL** OUR RESEARCH JOURNEY According to TrainWeb (before we found this token), this is the "holy grail" as there are only TWO of these known to exist (1 sold via The Fare Box in 1971, and the other the same way in 1977 - copies of those newsletters are included in photos). This appears to be the third known token. A copy of what is shown on TrainWeb is in the photos, declaring this to be "impossible" to find, and "THE HOLY GRAIL". We think this is genuinely extraordinarily rare item that is nearly impossible to find! Then, we posted about this in a Facebook Group for Token Collectors, and Philip M. Goldstein, who wrote what is in the screenshot above, CHANGED HIS ENTIRE WEBSITE in reaction to us posting this token on eBay. It want from being this impossible-to-find token to one that he now speculates there are others just waiting to be found - even though this is the first new one to turn up in 46 years. He argued in long-winded posts and private messages that the "catalog value", which hasn't been updated since 1977, is only $50. But, he himself wrote that he'd be willing to pay $500 for it, personally. Researching the Atwood-Coffee ID of NY998N (or NY 998 N), there are very few references to this token surfacing. We see that in 1971, it was auctioned off through The Fare Box newsletter. It again surfaced in 1977 in yet another The Fare Box newsletter auction. And, once again, it is mentioned in The Fare Box in January of 1981. The writer at that time acknowledges the sale in 1977, but adds that while this design was made by Meyer & Wenthe, but that a gentleman named Louis Schillner apparently designed the one New York City Transit Authority (NYCTA) actually used, but had never seen this rare example made by Meyer & Wenthe. A screenshot of that newsletter is also in the photos for this auction. We contacted Smith & Warren, who wound up with the Meyer & Wenthe badge molds, but they confirmed this morning that they did not see or retain any of the token paperwork or molds/tooling. There was a company in between that may have lost or discarded all of that. After 1981's Fare Box article, the same two tokens appear to have changed hands again. In 2010, one gentleman bought one of them for $250 in an auction that was actually verified in a 2010 Fare Box issue. Well, he reported to us privately that is how much he paid, but the publication says the auction STARTED at $50 ("catalog value"). So, the general public wouldn't know he paid more. The other token changed hands in 2014, and one of Philip's co-authors on the TrainWeb website got that one in a batch of tokens valued at over $20k. Because it was essentially an estate purchase, the listed amount on that token was $20. A bargain, by any estimation. This token we are offering wound up in the hands of a Chicago Transit Authority employee who retired, and then sold his collection to my Dad, who had an infamous Antique Store, Penn-Dutchman Antiques in Lincoln-Square in Chicago. The two went to high school together. Somehow this token was mixed in with thousands of others. My Dad probably had over 100,000 tokens at one point, and he would put out a bin at Antique Shows (like ones at the Arlington Park Race Track) where he'd sell them for 50 cents to a dollar. He'd do deals on handfuls, and most people looked for their hometowns. How it got missed for probably 35-40 years is a mystery, but it took me over 18 months to go through this collection as we've been offering them up on eBay, and I had put this one on the side because I couldn't find it in the normal catalogs. I decided to put a little extra effort into it, and discovered the article on TrainWeb, which made me think it is truly up to its moniker - "The Holy Grail". But, now Philip apparently caught some flak from other collectors, and he decided to change his tune once it was found. And, now his claim is that it is his PERSONAL "holy grail", and not THE "holy grail". In other words, he wants this token personally, and is using his website to influence the value for his own acquisition. Considering it was minted in Chicago, it is therefore no surprise that this design, which didn't make the cut, resulted in someone using it in Chicago as a technical counterfeit. That's my best guess as to the path it traveled, and why it looks circulated winding up in Chicago. Philip speculates that they would make several hundred just to make the sales pitch to New York City, which we agree with. However, Once they lost the bid, then they are most likely used as counterfeits by family and friends - and then the cities that take them in USUALLY DESTROY THEM (because they can't get repaid for them). This one slipped through because the guy who was supposed to incinerate them decided to keep some for himself. We are going to price this relative to how rare it appears, but will consider Best Offers. If you have more information about this token, please let us know. We are negotiable, but want to make sure that this winds up in the hands of persons who value it and will preserve its unique history. If a 4th one turns up (Philip thinks it is just around the corner!), we will adjust. Until then, it's one of the few tokens for which there is a very specific number known to exist. If any of those who Philip claims has more than the two known (and aren't selling them), and they contact us, then we will also lower the price. Of small note, look at how the NYC font is slightly different than the one ultimately used from 1953-1970. According to that article in the 1981 Fare Box, the person who drew the final design said he never saw the one from Meyer & Wenthe - which makes the similarity something between coincidence and fate. ***UPDATE 1/31/24*** After the first 7-day auction, I joined a FB Token Collectors Group which included Philip M. Goldstein, who runs TrainWeb, the site that originally called this the "holy grail". I let the community know that I had posted this listing. Philip solicited the sale of a membership to the American Vecturist Association, which I immediately took him up and sent my money via Paypal. I still await a login to the official Atwood-Coffee online Catalog, which is where Philip says the published value of this token is $50. He also then estimated it could be fetch up to $500. Now, I had already observed that the token was offered in an auction via The Fare Box in 1977 at $50. We don't know what it actually sold for, or as Philip refers to it on TrainWeb, the "realized" price. Philip wrote up his opinion on how prices are determined, which is included as a screen shot on this listing. HIs three primary factors are: Prices Realized on eBay (actual sold listings)Worthpoint Personal Records realized from private salesNow, there has never once been one of these NY998N tokens sold on eBay. Philip acknowledges that there were only two known previously, and confirms this is only the third one to have surfaced. Worthpoint has no record or reference of this token. But, when we get to personal records, we then go into the murky world of private transactions that have occurred within a small train and/or token collecting community. Everyone knows one another, and as Philip explains on his website, there are, from time to time, whole collections that come up for sale - but the rest of the world doesn't hear about it. George C., said openly in a FB Group post that he bought one in a collection in 2014. He says he paid $20 to $50 for it. He bought it in a larger collection, which means the token itself wasn't necessarily priced with the knowledge of its rarity by the seller. So, after putting up the listing last week, one gentleman who owns the OTHER known token wrote to me via eBay to say he bought his in 2010 for "five times the catalog price", which was still $50 in 2010. That's someone paying $250, which is excluded from consideration in a catalog price that hasn't changed for 46 years, even with inflation. To summarize, the known transactions we know of are: 1. 1971 2. 1977 3. 2010 4. 2014 All 4 of these transactions are over just 2 total tokens. Four transactions in over 50 years. These don't come around often. In regards to his comment about it being "the holy grail", you can see how Philip has changed his presentation. Its no longer a singular, but rather he has many holy grails. I don't think the concept of what the holy grail actually was is very well understood, and maybe there's a better term. OK, so how much is Philip willing to pay for his personal "holy grail"? He says $500, see screenshot. My question, however, is why the "catalog value" has remained flat for 46 years (at least) remains unanswered. It clearly needs an update because the only way you get one for $50 by talking one of the two people who have them into selling it for that number. Clearly, the guy who paid $250 14 years ago would be a fool to do so (and probably deserves some appreciated value, for at least inflation if nothing else), and the guy who thinks he paid $20-50 declined my offer for $50 today. Clearly, the catalog value is detached from reality. Without addressing all of Philips points one by one, let's just say he's making a long-winded argument leveraging his appearance as an expert or authority to drive down the price. If he's somehow involved with setting Atwood-Coffee catalog prices, I'd call that a conflict of interest. After two runs in auctions, we are now putting this in our Store as a Buy It Now item. We genuinely believe this value fits the criteria outlines by Mr. Goldstein. Our rationale is this: 1. Another rare token with a rarity of 5-10 known examples sold for $2000 (395152144832) in the past week 2. This one has a very special story tied to it at a key juncture in NYC transit history. 3. It has been at least 46 years since another one has surfaced. It is unlikely that a 4th is discovered in our lifetimes, at that rate. If you are interested in this token, feel free to send in an offer. We will consider all offers, and encourage discussion. Again, if anyone can prove there are more than 3 in existence, we will adjust the price downward. In the meantime, this appears to be a token that is truly and absolutely "rare" by any measure. We think it should fetch a price way above what Atwood-Coffee has claims is the value -$50.

Price: 5000 USD

Location: Fort Collins, Colorado

End Time: 2024-03-08T01:41:59.000Z

Shipping Cost: 0 USD